The
Undertones are without doubt one of the greatest bands this island has ever
produced. The man occupying the drum throne is one of my drumming heroes, the
brilliant Billy Doherty.
Tom;
Billy how did you get started in drumming?
Billy;
I was about maybe 7 or 8 years old. My sister and I went to a Christmas party
and there was a folk group consisting of a guitar player and another guy with a
snare drum. The drummer placed a handkerchief on the snare drum to dampen the
sound and I was intrigued by that. So, from that time on all I wanted to be was
a drummer. But I had no drum kit so I just used my hands and tapped of the sofa
and table. I was anything but a technical drummer and I was never able to do
rudiments.
Tom:
What was your first drum kit?
Billy:
My first drum kit was a mixture of drums maybe a Dixon bass drum, an Olympic
tom-tom and a hyman snare drum. A real hotch potch of drums and we got them
second hand from a shop in Raphoe called Reynolds. I probably bought them in
1976. John and Damien from The Undertones, their father, took out a loan of
providence cheques and he gave me the money so I bought the drum kit second
hand.
Tom:
Did you get a drum endorsement after that and when did you update your kit?
Billy: Well,
I was always in to Premier drums. Probably through television you would see all
these guys. Premier was a British kit. I’m a big fan of Charlie Watts and he
uses a Gretch kit and probably through Top of the Pops because there was always
a Premier kit on the programme, so I always wanted to have one. They were
common in the local music shops so when the band got success I was very lucky
to get an endorsement with Premier and I have been with them since 1979.
Tom:
And cymbals wise Billy, what do you use?
Billy: Back
then I preferred Zildjian to Paiste but I have an endorsement now with Sabian
and I really do like Sabian cymbals.
Tom:
Billy, you mentioned that you didn’t get any formal drum teaching. How do you
feel your style has progressed over the years?
Billy: My style Tom is very basic, very much
1,2,3,4 and Go. My style really hasn’t changed but I did play with other bands,
just messing about. I went to play with a Country and Western band. I think if
you can do the basic patterns, nail them and make it groove, I think that puts
you in good standing as regards progression. Obviously I’m not a technical
drummer so I couldn’t jump in to say, a big band and you wanted swing drumming
I would find that difficult you know reading music and playing chops, but I
would give it a try. If I had time to sit down and work it out I would be able
to work it out by ear. One of my big influences is Charlie Watts from The
Rolling Stones. He was one of the guys I thought was an amazing drummer. There
was a guy called Tony Leonard and Suzi Quatro’s drummer, Dave Neal. Paul
Thompson from Roxy Music, Woody (Mick Woodmansey) who played with David Bowie.
They were all big influences on me when I was growing up.
Tom: Excellent Billy. Were there any Irish
drummers at the time that you would have been listening to?
Billy: There
would have been drummers locally. There was a guy called Mickey Feeney, also
Jim Whiteside and a guy called Mickey Sheridan. They were loud guys playing in
bands who would have been slightly older than me. I couldn’t get in to the pubs
where they were playing so it would have been a case of poking in through the
window from outside. I would have tried to copy what they were playing and I
think it’s important for any young drummer starting out that they get good
training. You could agonise for years in order to figure out just how to do a
beat and then if you see someone show you and explain to you how it’s done it
can demystify the whole thing. In
Ireland for me at the time would have been Eamon Carr out of Horslips. That
would have been the big Irish band for us. I thought he was too good, his band
and his drumming was too good for me. I suppose Brian Downey, of Thin Lizzy.
These would have been the most serious Irish drummers when I was growing up.
Also the drummer out of the Royal Waterford Show band, he was an amazing
drummer.
Tom:
Billy, what advice would you give young drummers starting out?
Billy: I
think the important thing is to have the enthusiasm for it. You just have to
love it, which I do. I still get enthusiastic about drumming. It’s also
important to get a tutor, whether it’s Country & Western, Rock and Roll, if
you can get someone who does that style of drumming and speak to them and
figure out how they do it. Break the beat down in to small sections. The thing
is to try and learn some very basic beats and just study the bass drum, start
to finish, then focus on the snare drum, same thing and then move to the
hi-hats, then the cymbals. Try to nail all those sections and bring it
together. Definitely you should learn rudiments because the rudiments give you
very good independence and very good co-ordination which is a thing I never did
and I’m sorry I don’t play them. Also there is so much stuff now as to when I
was growing up I think the only magazine was Modern Drummer. There is so much
stuff now on the Internet, on YouTube and then there are so many DVDs. So try
and collect as much information as you can. Try and copy as many styles, that’s
the thing about drumming, knowing what angle to come at it. For me drummers are
like that, they just want to hear what’s going on. They can emulate the beat.
It certainly works for me.
Tom: Billy, when you’re drumming with The
Undertones do you have 100% control over what you play?
Billy: Well
it depends who writes the song. They might want it to sound like a Creedance
Clearwater Revival song or a Beatles song and so the drummer in those bands I
try and emulate their style. Yeah but it’s kind of more or less left up to me.
So nowadays with John being the main songwriter he would do a lot of
programming so he would do a beat and the song more or less can be done
drumming wise. It’s just up to me to copy the beat and throw in what I think
works but I tend to be fairly straight and just keep the beat and lock it down.
You see Tom it’s easy for us because we all like the same thing and we tune in
to each other. We all know what works, what doesn’t and what we can or can’t
fit in.
Tom:
There is a song from The Undertones called Really Really that’s credited to
you. How did you come up with that song?
Billy: I
think it was influenced by a Dave Clarke song. It was a kind of an upbeat,
funky, summery very happy song. I just had that idea in my head and I came up
with the riff on the guitar. I would tend to look more towards the sixties. For
me the whole sixties sound and the sixties drum sound is so good.
Tom:
Billy you’ve had a lot of highlights in your life with The Undertones. What are
the key ones?
Billy: One of
the key highlights for me was when we did the Teenage Kicks song and we gave it
to John Peel. He told us that he was going to play it on his radio show. We
were all in O’Neill’s with the radio on listening to John Peel. We were so
thrilled. You know the radio and TV were very important back then. We could
hear music and see bands whenever. The fact of John Peel playing our song on
the radio was absolutely unbelievable but no sooner had he played the track he
put back the needle and played the song for the second time. We were just
speechless and we just looked at each other. We just roared out with laughter.
O my God, that’s absolutely amazing. We never heard a record played back to
back on Radio One at any stage. I mean I could have died and I would have been
happy. The aspiration I had for the band happened very, very quickly. Make a
record, have it played by John Peel, have it played on Radio One, and be on Top
of the Pops. That happened within a matter of months so I fulfilled all my
ambitions really, really quickly so anything after that was a bonus.
Tom:
Brilliant Billy and recording wise what would you say was your favourite
album?
Billy: I
think for me probably Sin of Pride. People would say our first album which is
in the top 100 albums of all time. I think it’s in the top 1001 records to hear
before you die as well. But I prefer the last album Sin of Pride probably
because I was more confident and I knew more about the recording process. Eh, I
knew how to get better drum sounds. When we went in to record the first LP I
didn’t know much about studios, I didn’t know different skins give you
different sounds. Being in a studio is a unique experience and an art in its
own and you have to adapt to that environment so by the time I got to that LP I
became more confident, more familiar of the whole recording process and I like
the songs better as well.
Tom:
Billy, what are your own favourite songs?
Billy:
Forgetting The Undertones, there was a guy called Bobby Graham. Bobby Graham
played with Van Morrison and Them and he drummed on Gloria. The drumming on
Gloria for me is absolutely brilliant. Some drumming, I mean there is so much
going on in that, Latin American technique, great snare drum sound. It’s just
an absolutely brilliant track and I was very, very lucky to speak to Bobby
Graham before he died. He’s dead now probably two years. I was disappointed
that a documentary was never made particularly about the British drummers. For
me Bobby was one of the best players in the sixties and seventies. I think he
played with Petula Clark, Tom Jones and Van Morrison. I love Gloria, I think
it’s my favourite track and of course Charlie Watts of The Rolling Stones. Eh,
anything by Charlie Watts, Jumping Jack Flash is absolutely an amazing track
for me. I would have to say The Ramones, Tommy Ramone. Any song from The
Ramones. It’s just that we would copy The Ramones so much.
Tom:
Billy, you’re best known for your work in The Undertones but you’ve played in
other bands as well!
Billy: Well I
played in a band called The Carrelines and it had a singer called Paul McLoone.
Paul now sings with The Undertones. We won the Hot Press best unsigned act. I
think the key to a band is that everybody can get on. It’s important that
everybody has the same outlook, the same style in music and if you can get
these elements to work then you’re very, very lucky. It’s then very enjoyable
and fun.
Tom:
Did The Carrelines release anything?
Billy: Yes,
we did a single as part of the prize for winning the award. I think it got a
couple of airplays and there was a lot of record company interest. We were about to sing with Virgin records but
one of the guys in the band he wanted to do other things so it just didn’t
happen.
Tom:
Billy, you supposedly came up with the name The Undertones, is that correct?
Billy: I did
yes. I always liked names that have some kind of rhythm to them. Names like The
Beatles, Roxy Music, and The Rolling Stones. I always liked those kinds of
names. So obviously with the punk thing coming out and you had, The Buzzcocks,
The Sex Pistols and The Damned, all the big names and I said to the lads, what
about The Undertones and they said ok, except Feargal. He hated the name. He
was on holidays at the time and when he came back we just told him but he
didn’t like it at all. But I think bands go through that thinking of all
different names until they get something that’s ok. The Undertones, that name
just stuck with us.
Tom:
You have done a lot of studio recordings and playing live. Which do you prefer?
Billy: I
prefer studio work. I like it a lot
because you can go back and decide what works, what doesn’t work and if a beat
needs changing. I definitely love the recording process. I think it’s great. I
could work in a studio all day. When your drum track is finished and then
guitars, vocals go down etc.
Tom:
Do you listen back to certain songs and think I wish I had played the beat
differently?
Billy: Eh,
every one of them I would change, (Billy laughs). I should have done a fill
there. I should have left that drum fill out. Yeah, every song I would change
absolutely.
Tom:
Billy, I love the tuning you get with your drums. What do you do to achieve
this?
Billy: Well
for live, I tune the heads very tight and that’s because I’m a big fan of John
Bonham from Led Zeppelin. Also I remember Ian Paice of Deep Purple talk about
Bonham saying that he tuned the heads very tight, so that’s what I do. I try
and get the top skins to tune as tight as I can. I really don’t use any gaffer
tape or dampening on the drums. The only bit of dampening I use is a light bit
of dampening on the bass drum. I use coated heads which isn’t really good for
my style of drumming because I wear them out too quickly. I think they give a
very ringy sound which I like and because my toms are quite deep it gives a
nice depth to the sound. Live, I try and keep everything very bright and with
very little dampening.
Tom:
What size bass drum are you using at the moment?
Billy: I use
a 22 inch bass drum, a 14 inch rack drum and that’s because I’m a big fan of
Charlie Watts. I’m a big fan of the Ludwig Black Beauty snare, I think there
excellent.
Tom:
So what’s next in the pipeline for Billy Doherty? Is there a 5 year plan?
Billy:
(laughs) I wish there was a 5 year plan. With The Undertones we just potter
about day to day. If someone says lets go in and record we’ll do that, if
someone says let’s practise we will go and do that, we’re basically a lazy
bunch. Well at the moment we have dates in Germany and we’re doing a fund
raiser for John Peel. Also the band could be going to Australia and South
America early next year, there’s talk of us doing that. Also there’s a
documentary coming out about the band, I think it’s on September 7th
on BBC4. Well I mean six months would be a long time for us to plan for. We
just keep it day to day and please God we’ll stay in good health and do more
dates and people come to the shows.
Tom:
You mentioned playing live and staying in good health. What do you do to keep
yourself in good shape for drumming?
Billy: Well
for my type of drumming I definitely have to keep myself fit. I need to keep
myself fit because our songs are very, very fast. If anything I think we are
faster now than we were when we first started out.
Tom;
Do you run any drum clinics Billy?
Billy: I
don’t Tom because I don’t consider myself in any way a technical drummer. If I
teach someone all I can teach them is to play a real steady rock beat, you know
bass drum, snare drum and hi hat. I was
thinking about setting up a basic course on rock drumming. It would take a bit
of time but I never got around to actually giving lessons.
Tom:
You mentioned that you play guitar, anything else?
Billy: Maybe
a bit of keyboard, a bit of guitar, a sort of a jack of all trades but master
of none as the saying goes but drumming is definitely my preference. I just
love drumming. That’s just what I’m in to. I know it’s sad but it’s just what
I’m in to.
Tom:
What advice would you give to drummers?
Billy: Go to drum clinics whenever you can. There is
so much you can learn. I’ve gone to quite a few. The last one I went to was
Chad Smith of the Red Hot Chilli Peppers. Now I wouldn’t be a big Chilli
Peppers fan but he was very, very good.
Also I went to see John Thompson, he drummed with Rory Gallagher and I
went to the drummer who plays with Paul Weller. And if you go to these drum
clinics, ask questions, even silly questions. I remember someone asking a
question and I was thinking that’s exactly what I was going to ask because it’s
just priceless information. So get to as many drum clinics as you can and there
really good fun as well. It’s a really good day out.
Tom:
Billy how do you think Irish drummers differ from their counterparts, say in
America or mainland Europe?
Billy: That’s
an absolutely brilliant question. Funnily enough I was talking to Liam Bradley,
drummer with Van Morrison and Boyzone. Liam was saying when he was growing up,
along with me; he was always looking towards American drummers and wondering
why they were so good. The reason he thinks that American drummers are so good
is that they are given lessons at a very young age at junior school and that
nurturing continues through primary and through college. That system doesn’t
exist in Ireland; well it didn’t in my day. I think it’s changing now with
musical education in schools because music covers everything from guitars,
trombones and there’s drumming. It’s great if kids can try that basic rhythm
whether it’s a tambourine, a triangle or bongos. It would be great to keep that
basic groundwork of rhythm through school from primary to college. So I think that’s
the difference between American drummers and Irish drummers. I think also
generally American drummers seem to be a lot more relaxed, more self assured
when there drumming. From the talent point of view I don’t think there is much
difference it’s just individually their prepared to put more work in.
Tom:
So, can Irish drummers bridge the gap?
Billy: That’s
a good question but I don’t look at it as one drummer being better than another
drummer, it’s just the style that they bring. Also in America there is jazz and
that’s part of the popular culture too. America’s so big and the opportunities
for players so better as well. I think here for me and probably with The
Troubles as well there wasn’t many bands to go and see.
Tom:
Thanks Billy for your time in doing this interview.
Billy: No
bother Tom. I think it’s great what you’re doing. I remember when I was talking
to Bobby Graham about his playing on Gloria. Now I love Gloria, it’s one of the
reasons I got in to drumming. I was talking to Bobby about his snare drum on
that and he said he wanted to get a Latin feel on one part and it was totally
spontaneous. I couldn’t believe it. Bobby set up the drums and they went for
it. I think they did it in one take. So I think it’s great that somebody can
document all this stuff about drummers.
Interview; Billy Doherty
Location; Tom’s Kitchen
Date; 29th August, 2012